That I don't know, unfortunately. All of mine came from Russia. But I will say that the traditional, fancy woven belts, while they look great, are actually not quite so common in use as simpler belts. It is an easy option to get a long piece of some appropriate material from someplace generic like JoAnn Fabric, or the like, and cut it, which will automatically make a little fringe on both ends. This will look more natural, frankly. The nice woven ones are certainly used, but sometimes, they can look like novelties for "spiritual tourists" if they are overdone.
That is great you found places that sell kaftans and prayer shirts! I have been asked multiple times for recommended places. Could you share the names of any of these businesses? Maybe they will have websites or facebook pages I can direct people to (and maybe generate a little extra business for them in the process).
I have never seen anyone with leather. I do not know if it is forbidden or not (if I knew, I forgot), but I wouldn't use it. Yes, regular fabrics, like linen, cotton, whatever, are perfectly fine. I have seen people with belts, in church, that look like a long shoelace (in thickness). The bells and whistles are nice, but yes, they are all extra.
Here is a well-known Romanian clothing maker, with very legitimate shirts and scarves/dresses intended for church. It is possible to interact by using an AI or Google to simply translate what you want to say into Romanian. Also, the last time I bought lestovki from Romania, the shipping was so fast, I was shocked. From Russia and it could be months. This was a few days. Might also be worth looking into.
Also, I have never dealt with them, but in Woodburn, there is a fabric shop run by Priestless Old Believers that is a well-established business and supplies non-priestless as well - if you go to the "Custom Embroidery" section, it looks like you can design your own kosovorotka, but I have never done business with them - might be worth a trip. Here are the links:
So are there any specifics on Old Believer dress? (I.e., wearing a Kosovorotka for some occasion, Kaftan for other) or for all they care you could wear a Nosija or some other style of modest embroided shirt and it wouldn't matter.
Well, the normal use is to wear a kosovorotka with a belt under the kaftan. In communities where this has been preserved, like Oregon, all men wear the kaftan to church, and it is not like it is in Nikonian churches - you do not need to be of any special rank to wear a kaftan. Small boys wear them.
In Russia, it is common to see men in normal button-down shirts, with belts. Although this is far from ideal, because they are too short to execute prostrations in, which is why the kosovorotka is so practical. Also, the offset buttons were designed intentionally so that while working, your cross would not fall out and be exposed, or worse, touch the ground.
I don't know what a nosija is. But visitors only need dress modestly, ensuring their limbs are fully covered.
Unfortunately I am yet to find a good image showing Old Believer dress. Most of the images I find, either they aren't wearing the Kaftan/Kosovorotka or they are outside church wearing the Kosovorotka only.
Besides most of the images I find of "Kaftan" aren't related to Russian dress. If I recall, it's a knee long tunic type thing?
I never knew that was the purpose of the offset buttons though, that's indeed very practical!
This is a Nosija, Bulgarian folk clothing which is similar in some regards.
No, the katfan is ankle length. I don't know any difference between the kaftan and a cassock, and assume they are interchangeable.
The knee-length tunic you are referring to is an article of Cossack dress. Here is a link to images from a Yandex search. Should give a good head start. For all things Old Believer, Yandex is a much better search engine than Google. I know it's the opposite for almost everything else....
I've found several stores which sell traditional Kaftan, kosovorotka, and thus. Trousers and shoes are rather universal. However I've found no place that sells belts.
It's a great question. Yes, non-Russian Old Believers still need to wear the belt. This is a question and answer from an Old Believer periodical called "Church" from the early 20th century. The work they reference is a Russian edition of the works of St. Basil the Great.
"What indicates that Christians should wear a belt?
The necessity of wearing a belt is discussed by St. Basil the Great: “That the use of a belt is essential is proven by the holy
men who lived before us: John the Baptist, who wore a leather
belt around his waist (Matt. 3:4), and even before him, Elijah, for
it is described that he was a hairy man with a leather belt around
his waist (2 Kings 1:8). It is also indicated that Peter used a belt,
as seen in the words of the angel who said to him: ‘Gird yourself
and tie on your sandals’ (Acts 12:8). Blessed Paul, as prophesied
by Agabus, also used a belt, for it is said: ‘The man who owns this
belt will be bound in this way in Jerusalem’ (Acts 21:11). And
the Lord commands Job to gird up his loins like a man. As a
sign of some kind of courage or readiness, it is said to him: ‘Gird
up your loins like a man’ (Job 38:3). All of the Lord’s disciples
customarily used belts, as seen in the prohibition against carrying
money in their belts." - (Творения св. Василия Великого, vol. 2, p. 361, 1911
edition).
I realise I was being quite silly with the question as it is answered in the quotes at the end of the page, forgive me, but thank you for the response. I assume this belt can just be any belt - doesn’t have to be decorated - but does it have to wrap around your shirt as well? Mine is around my hip on my trousers so that it is typically not visible to see, but I don’t wear it over the shirt.
This pushes the distinction between custom and tradition. The custom is to wear the belt over the untucked shirt so that it is visible. There are also many Old Believers who wear an "inner" belt on skin of their waist which never comes off. Ever. If it gets worn away, it is simply replaced. The belt does not have to woven or fancy, in fact these kinds of belts are rather unusual, festive perhaps. The normal belt you will see worn in an Old Believer church will resemble something much simpler. Think of a thick string, or ribbon of plain fabric. But either style is perfectly acceptable. So, really it is possible to go to church wearing three belts, the inner, the belt to hold up your pants, and your visible, symbolic belt!
Usually the wives make them. If you or your wife have any sewing skills, Folkwear has two patterns, one for each sex that are traditional. The womans dress patter, the "sarafan", in fact came from Old Believers in Oregon and the information included with the pattern is quite nice (I own both patterns - they look silly by their packaging, but they are quite authentic). The mens shirt (the kosovorotka) looks to be discontinued, but they have it at Amazon here:
The only difference for the mens shirt pattern is that you would have to offset the placket (where the buttons are). The centered buttons are Ukranian folk style.
In Oregon, which is the only place in the US you will find traditional Old Believers, outside of Alaska, there is a fabric store:
They have a form for assembling your own mens shirts, which they will make for you to ship. It is run by the Priestless Old Believers, and while it will be 100% authentic, I have never done business with them, so I cant speak to the process. Some Priested Old Believers use the store for their wedding dresses. The kinds of shirts you see there are what you see men and boys wearing almost everywhere you go on a Sunday afternoon.
In Russia, it is rather different. In many communities, it is common now to see men in untucked button-down shirts with a belt around it. In Oregon, the people still take traditional clothing quite seriously and all men go to church with a shirt like the ones above, but with a kaftan on the outside (essentially a podryasnik that only readers and above wear in Nikonian churches).
One more link to a Facebook seller in Romania I forgot about...
https://www.facebook.com/broderii.claudia
That I don't know, unfortunately. All of mine came from Russia. But I will say that the traditional, fancy woven belts, while they look great, are actually not quite so common in use as simpler belts. It is an easy option to get a long piece of some appropriate material from someplace generic like JoAnn Fabric, or the like, and cut it, which will automatically make a little fringe on both ends. This will look more natural, frankly. The nice woven ones are certainly used, but sometimes, they can look like novelties for "spiritual tourists" if they are overdone.
That is great you found places that sell kaftans and prayer shirts! I have been asked multiple times for recommended places. Could you share the names of any of these businesses? Maybe they will have websites or facebook pages I can direct people to (and maybe generate a little extra business for them in the process).
So in reality, any fabric (or leather?) Strand would do? Color, design, etc is all extra?
https://www.rusclothing.com/?srsltid=AfmBOorbnM9cMIBrnudKxeWVpkch8fBLE6CfeQLNfCLYQnsBcG83FnnH
This is the main site I've been looking at, which had several very nice embroided shirts.
(Though I haven't done any business with them, so for all I know it's a scam!)
I have never seen anyone with leather. I do not know if it is forbidden or not (if I knew, I forgot), but I wouldn't use it. Yes, regular fabrics, like linen, cotton, whatever, are perfectly fine. I have seen people with belts, in church, that look like a long shoelace (in thickness). The bells and whistles are nice, but yes, they are all extra.
Here is a well-known Romanian clothing maker, with very legitimate shirts and scarves/dresses intended for church. It is possible to interact by using an AI or Google to simply translate what you want to say into Romanian. Also, the last time I bought lestovki from Romania, the shipping was so fast, I was shocked. From Russia and it could be months. This was a few days. Might also be worth looking into.
Also, I have never dealt with them, but in Woodburn, there is a fabric shop run by Priestless Old Believers that is a well-established business and supplies non-priestless as well - if you go to the "Custom Embroidery" section, it looks like you can design your own kosovorotka, but I have never done business with them - might be worth a trip. Here are the links:
https://www.facebook.com/broderii.elena
https://www.fabricboutiquestore.com/custom-embroidery
Thank you. I will definitely check them out.
So are there any specifics on Old Believer dress? (I.e., wearing a Kosovorotka for some occasion, Kaftan for other) or for all they care you could wear a Nosija or some other style of modest embroided shirt and it wouldn't matter.
Well, the normal use is to wear a kosovorotka with a belt under the kaftan. In communities where this has been preserved, like Oregon, all men wear the kaftan to church, and it is not like it is in Nikonian churches - you do not need to be of any special rank to wear a kaftan. Small boys wear them.
In Russia, it is common to see men in normal button-down shirts, with belts. Although this is far from ideal, because they are too short to execute prostrations in, which is why the kosovorotka is so practical. Also, the offset buttons were designed intentionally so that while working, your cross would not fall out and be exposed, or worse, touch the ground.
I don't know what a nosija is. But visitors only need dress modestly, ensuring their limbs are fully covered.
Unfortunately I am yet to find a good image showing Old Believer dress. Most of the images I find, either they aren't wearing the Kaftan/Kosovorotka or they are outside church wearing the Kosovorotka only.
Besides most of the images I find of "Kaftan" aren't related to Russian dress. If I recall, it's a knee long tunic type thing?
I never knew that was the purpose of the offset buttons though, that's indeed very practical!
This is a Nosija, Bulgarian folk clothing which is similar in some regards.
https://bg.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A4%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BB:Children_in_Bulgarian_national_costumes.jpg
No, the katfan is ankle length. I don't know any difference between the kaftan and a cassock, and assume they are interchangeable.
The knee-length tunic you are referring to is an article of Cossack dress. Here is a link to images from a Yandex search. Should give a good head start. For all things Old Believer, Yandex is a much better search engine than Google. I know it's the opposite for almost everything else....
https://yandex.ru/images/touch/search?text=старообрядцы
Does the store in Oregon also weave belts?
I've found several stores which sell traditional Kaftan, kosovorotka, and thus. Trousers and shoes are rather universal. However I've found no place that sells belts.
Odd question, but for those who happened to be Old Believers but aren't Russian, would this practice still be kept for believers?
It's a great question. Yes, non-Russian Old Believers still need to wear the belt. This is a question and answer from an Old Believer periodical called "Church" from the early 20th century. The work they reference is a Russian edition of the works of St. Basil the Great.
"What indicates that Christians should wear a belt?
The necessity of wearing a belt is discussed by St. Basil the Great: “That the use of a belt is essential is proven by the holy men who lived before us: John the Baptist, who wore a leather
belt around his waist (Matt. 3:4), and even before him, Elijah, for it is described that he was a hairy man with a leather belt around his waist (2 Kings 1:8). It is also indicated that Peter used a belt, as seen in the words of the angel who said to him: ‘Gird yourself and tie on your sandals’ (Acts 12:8). Blessed Paul, as prophesied by Agabus, also used a belt, for it is said: ‘The man who owns this belt will be bound in this way in Jerusalem’ (Acts 21:11). And
the Lord commands Job to gird up his loins like a man. As a sign of some kind of courage or readiness, it is said to him: ‘Gird up your loins like a man’ (Job 38:3). All of the Lord’s disciples
customarily used belts, as seen in the prohibition against carrying money in their belts." - (Творения св. Василия Великого, vol. 2, p. 361, 1911 edition).
(Церковь, 1913, № 42)."
I realise I was being quite silly with the question as it is answered in the quotes at the end of the page, forgive me, but thank you for the response. I assume this belt can just be any belt - doesn’t have to be decorated - but does it have to wrap around your shirt as well? Mine is around my hip on my trousers so that it is typically not visible to see, but I don’t wear it over the shirt.
This pushes the distinction between custom and tradition. The custom is to wear the belt over the untucked shirt so that it is visible. There are also many Old Believers who wear an "inner" belt on skin of their waist which never comes off. Ever. If it gets worn away, it is simply replaced. The belt does not have to woven or fancy, in fact these kinds of belts are rather unusual, festive perhaps. The normal belt you will see worn in an Old Believer church will resemble something much simpler. Think of a thick string, or ribbon of plain fabric. But either style is perfectly acceptable. So, really it is possible to go to church wearing three belts, the inner, the belt to hold up your pants, and your visible, symbolic belt!
Usually the wives make them. If you or your wife have any sewing skills, Folkwear has two patterns, one for each sex that are traditional. The womans dress patter, the "sarafan", in fact came from Old Believers in Oregon and the information included with the pattern is quite nice (I own both patterns - they look silly by their packaging, but they are quite authentic). The mens shirt (the kosovorotka) looks to be discontinued, but they have it at Amazon here:
https://www.amazon.com/Patterns-Folkwear-Shirts-Russia-Ukraine/dp/B00162MCXE?source=ps-sl-shoppingads-lpcontext&ref_=fplfs&psc=1&smid=A3DMYIN9K0RYXC
The womans pattern is here:
https://www.folkwear.com/products/128-russian-settlers-dress
The only difference for the mens shirt pattern is that you would have to offset the placket (where the buttons are). The centered buttons are Ukranian folk style.
In Oregon, which is the only place in the US you will find traditional Old Believers, outside of Alaska, there is a fabric store:
https://www.fabricboutiquestore.com/
They have a form for assembling your own mens shirts, which they will make for you to ship. It is run by the Priestless Old Believers, and while it will be 100% authentic, I have never done business with them, so I cant speak to the process. Some Priested Old Believers use the store for their wedding dresses. The kinds of shirts you see there are what you see men and boys wearing almost everywhere you go on a Sunday afternoon.
In Russia, it is rather different. In many communities, it is common now to see men in untucked button-down shirts with a belt around it. In Oregon, the people still take traditional clothing quite seriously and all men go to church with a shirt like the ones above, but with a kaftan on the outside (essentially a podryasnik that only readers and above wear in Nikonian churches).
Hope this helps!
Where does one in the US find the traditional clothing for men and women?